Hi Akinori,
MAEMURA Akinori said the following on 11/1/07 15:37:
Only for NIR fees, within your message in December. I know
this is a very late response but I'd like to have your
thought on my idea.
I was wondering about my e-mail. It seems to have completely killed all
discussion... Thank you for replying!
| NIRs & Their Fees
| -----------------
|
| I find it odd that the NIRs pay any fees to APNIC at all (over and
above
| a standard affiliation fee, that is). I always thought that the NIRs
| provide a *value added service* to the Local Internet Registries they
| serve (national language, national policy meetings, etc) - that's
| certainly the marketing that all the NIRs actively engage in.
|
The word "marketing" is really impressing.
Maybe I travel too much, but there is definitely a distinct impression
being promoted by several people that NIRs provide a value add over
direct APNIC membership. I see it in many parts of the APNIC region. So,
marketing! ;-)
I don't really understand why you don't see NIRs pay any fee.
In the graph of pp7, it says NIRs will pay almost double.
No, I think I didn't explain myself clearly, sorry about that.
Basically my comment was that I think NIRs should not pay any fees at
all, over and above an affiliation fee. The NIRs are not using APNIC
resources and services, it's the LIRs who are members of the NIRs who
are using APNIC resources and services. They should pay.
It is really a revolutionary idea.
Well, we've been stuck in this impasse for the 9 years I've lived and
worked in the AP region. Maybe something completely different is the way
out?
In case of JPNIC, IP Department (NIR section) holds, say,
USD2M annual budget, paying USD200K to APNIC now including
par address fee.
Wow! That is a significant budget, and made harder to operate because
you have to estimate how much address space the NIR members are going to
use. I can't see how anyone can do that.
I understand you can see NIR as a value added service, but
I have a totally different idea. From the propotion of
JPNIC's budget, we don't think ourselves doing just a VAS
(in other words we don't think we are mere value added
resalers), but doing a registry business almost the same as
APNIC does, whose main portion of cost is for human resources
of hostmasters and RMS operations.
Well, a VAR is the nearest analogy I could find. Basically APNIC is the
holder of the resource, received from IANA. JPNIC is doing a significant
proportion of the administrative work to loan this resource to the LIR.
But it is still an APNIC resource. It is returned to APNIC when it is no
longer required, etc.
Translate into an equipment vendor analogy. Cisco sells routers. Our
partners and resellers sell our product on our behalf. We don't charge
our partners and resellers some arbitrarily escalating fee based on the
value of the product we sell. The partner and reseller takes a small
percentage of the product as sold to the end customer. Further, the
partners and resellers do not erase the Cisco name from our product and
put their own on it. It's still a Cisco product, just being sold by
someone else.
So why don't we adopt this model for the NIRs as well? Then the NIRs do
not have to pay this per address fee to APNIC. And the LIRs at the end
pay for the services they use. And this fee can be consistent across all
LIRs, whether they are NIR or direct APNIC members. Naturally the NIRs
will have to cover their own administrative costs too, but as in all
business relationships, this can also be charged to the end customer.
Currently LIRs who are the member of an NIR receive the
service of IP address distribution based on the contract
not with APNIC but with an NIR. it is not so simple for
LIRs under an NIR to pay something directly to APNIC.
Well, it doesn't have to be paid directly. It is paid to the NIR, who
then passes the payment on to APNIC. Same way as equipment resellers
bill the customer, and then pass the payment on to the vendor/supplier.
I have been considering about NIR fee but realizing that
is really a difficult problem again and again...
Difficult problems sometimes need radical solutions! :-)
philip
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