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Re: [GLOBAL-V6]IPv6 Policy Proposal for LACNIC Region

Jeff,

The press release is from 14 January 2004, and it mentions:
"The European Union has been instrumental in giving political and financial support to the rapid take up of the new Internet Protocol IPv6" ... and also "From the start, the European Union has been a key player providing both political and financial support to IPv6"

I don't know where you see that the support was availble only from 12/14/03 ?

For concrete financial data, you can take a look into www.cordis.lu (this is an official EU site), and search for IPv6, but again, the information is more concise at www.ist-ipv6.org.

As said, you have concrete dates of each project at www.ist-ipv6.org, also in specific project sites as www.euro6ix.org, www.6net.org, etc., in the case you don't trust me.

I'm sure someone from Japan or Taiwan can tell you how much they invested also since 1996, as I don't have precise data, but you're totally wrong on this.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Cc: "Kurt Erik Lindqvist" <kurtis@kurtis.pp.se>; "Jane Coffin" <jcoffin@ntia.doc.gov>; "icann board address" <icann-board@icann.org>; "Kathy Smith" <KSMITH@ntia.doc.gov>; "Kenneth Jost" <kenneth.jost@usdoj.gov>; <global-v6@lists.apnic.net>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-V6]IPv6 Policy Proposal for LACNIC Region


> Jordi and all,
> 
> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> 
> > Jeff,
> >
> > The EC (European tax payers) has paid only in the last 3 years around 90 Million Euros in IPv6 R&D, including a lot of standardization work. This is not including previous works, or others still to be done, or the funding provided by national authorities. Those are only EC funded projects.
> >
> > I've been involved, even originated, some of those projects (about 7 of them), accounting a total of at least 40-45 MEuros, and I have seen the money flowing into the projects, so for sure is true.
> >
> > Note that the other 90 Million Euros has been matched by the European industry.
> >
> > You can read this, if you don't trust me, at press information like http://www.ist-ipv6.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=298. They mention 85 MEuros, but I can tell you that is even more than 90, they are just too conservative. And this is only those projects that are IPv6 focused. If you are interested, I suggest that you look at the rest of this site (www.ist-ipv6.org), as clearly you need more information to be more objective.
> 
>   The actual official link is here:
> http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=IP/04/43|0|RAPID&lg=EN&display=
> And to be accurate none of this funding was available according this
> "Press Release" was available until 12/14/03.  And as such the majority of
> the actual development funds were as I stated before born by the US
> starting in 1996.  The article you referenced and the related "Press Release"
> are hardly definitive references and certainly not official EU finance data
> records.
> 
> >
> >
> > In addition, there are other projects, not exclusively related to IPv6, like GEANT, that have invested a lot of effort (money at the end), in deploying IPv6 trials and networks, today in production.
> >
> > I know about similar efforts at least from Japan, Korea, and Taiwan, but don't have at hand concrete figures.
> 
>   Yes Japan and Taiwan have put some funding in the marketing side of things
> for v6 but none that I am aware of for v6 development.
> 
> >
> >
> > Anyway, are you forgetting a lot of names, people, that is not from US, and had contributed to IPv6 since early beginning, funded by themselves, their companies, or their countries.
> 
>   And most of those funds for development of v6 came from US Tax dollars
> through the now depleted Infrastructure fund from DOC/NTIA.
> 
> >
> >
> > Look, I'm not patriotic, I don't mind Spain, or Europe or US, I'm just a citizen of the universe, but no way can consent anyone to take the merit alone not recognizing the rest of the contributors. Is totally again my principles.
> 
>  I agree with you here and I always have.  But lets not say one thing and spin
> it into something it is not.  And as result let's also not restrict through
> exorbitant membership fees in order to recoup those marketing effort
> funds US citizens from being members or any of the RIR's when the lions
> share of those funds for the development of v6 came from those same
> US citizens.  That's like taxing them twice for what they already paid
> for once.
> 
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
> > Cc: "Kurt Erik Lindqvist" <kurtis@kurtis.pp.se>; "Jane Coffin" <jcoffin@ntia.doc.gov>; "icann board address" <icann-board@icann.org>; "Kathy Smith" <KSMITH@ntia.doc.gov>; "Kenneth Jost" <kenneth.jost@usdoj.gov>; <global-v6@lists.apnic.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-V6]IPv6 Policy Proposal for LACNIC Region
> >
> > > Jordi and all,
> > >
> > > JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > I feel quite inappropriate and even wrong the comment regarding IPv6 development paid predominantly by US tax payers.
> > >
> > >   I am sorry you feel that way, truly.  However that is a documented
> > > fact.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Are you counting the promotion cost, education cost, trials cost, the implementation cost, the deployment cost ? Are you assuming that all this has been done only by US ?
> > >
> > >   No I am not and did not say that all these costs were born by the US.  However
> > > most of them were.
> > >
> > > > What about the rest of the Canada, Asia Pacific and Europe people, just to mention a few ?
> > >
> > >   Where is a document outlining how much and when these countries
> > > paid or have paid?  DOC/NTIA as well as the US federal Registry
> > > does contain all of the funds from the than infrastructure budget
> > > documented.  You or anyone may review those extant docs.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > IPv6 is not happening just because US.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Jordi
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> > > > To: "Kurt Erik Lindqvist" <kurtis@kurtis.pp.se>; "Jane Coffin" <jcoffin@ntia.doc.gov>
> > > > Cc: <global-v6@lists.apnic.net>; "icann board address" <icann-board@icann.org>; "Kathy Smith" <KSMITH@ntia.doc.gov>; "Kenneth Jost" <kenneth.jost@usdoj.gov>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:03 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-V6]IPv6 Policy Proposal for LACNIC Region
> > > >
> > > > > Kurt and all,
> > > > >
> > > > >   IPv6 was developed with public funds paid predominantly by
> > > > > US tax payers.  Hence IPv6 is a PUBLIC resource.  As such
> > > > > membership for any and all stakeholders is or must be assumed
> > > > > and unencumbered.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2004-01-23, at 23.38, Randy Bush wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> So, do you think that the isps would benefit from a homogenous policy
> > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > >> all the aspects or they would just require homogeneity in some
> > > > > > >> specific
> > > > > > >> aspects of the policy (such size of the address blocks assigned).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i'll settle for what i can get.  but prefix length and swamp locations
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > biggies.  just think like a router.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While I agree with Randy, and while I generally think that the current
> > > > > > situation with different policies in each region is bad, as it makes
> > > > > > people/companies go to the RIR that meets their needs the best - there
> > > > > > are also regional/local differences that to some extent need to be
> > > > > > catered for. Like what Marcelo says about allocation criteria.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To make things worse, at least initially (and I think still) there
> > > > > > where quite different views in the regions on what the allocation
> > > > > > criteria should be. This was to some extent due the different
> > > > > > membership models of the various RIRs. I still have quite some sympathy
> > > > > > for the original RIPE LIR-WG proposal that anyone who was a member of
> > > > > > RIPE NCC would get an allocation (actually I think it was anyone who
> > > > > > applied - and given the current landslide that might have been a good
> > > > > > thing(tm) ). Yes, it would put a price on addresses. But if you really
> > > > > > need portable addressspace, you got to be this tall to ride...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - - kurtis -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > > > Version: PGP 8.0.3
> > > > > >
> > > > > > iQA/AwUBQBIlUqarNKXTPFCVEQJHlgCferB26d5C49/XZwjxneVAW7yMngUAoIcx
> > > > > > SlOhMS0S/jJqql+97CW2p7Kb
> > > > > > =v+f3
> > > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > global-v6 mailing list
> > > > > > global-v6@lists.apnic.net
> > > > > > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/global-v6
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > > > "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
> > > > >     Pierre Abelard
> > > > >
> > > > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > > > ===============================================================
> > > > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> > > > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > global-v6 mailing list
> > > > > global-v6@lists.apnic.net
> > > > > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/global-v6
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > **********************************
> > > > Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
> > > > Presentations and videos on line at:
> > > > http://www.ipv6-es.com
> > > >
> > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
> > >     Pierre Abelard
> > >
> > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> > > United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> > > ===============================================================
> > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > global-v6 mailing list
> > > global-v6@lists.apnic.net
> > > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/global-v6
> > >
> >
> > **********************************
> > Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
> > Presentations and videos on line at:
> > http://www.ipv6-es.com
> >
> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
>     Pierre Abelard
> 
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> global-v6 mailing list
> global-v6@lists.apnic.net
> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/global-v6
>

**********************************
Madrid 2003 Global IPv6 Summit
Presentations and videos on line at:
http://www.ipv6-es.com

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.